Faster Than Lite

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Faster Than Lite

Postby JO 753 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:43 am

I came up with a thruster based on liquid helium several yirz ago. Sins its superfluid (no friction) if it can be ejected at hi enuf pressure thru a tiny orifise to reach relativistic speedz, its mass will be amplified.

Given this, its conseevabl that the vehucle coud reach a significant fraction uv LS from the perspectiv uv the starting pozition, but woud soon exeed LS from the perspectiv uv the occupants.

I recall reading that sumwun going 80% LS from an outside perspectiv woud be able to cross the galaxy in 12 yirz from their perspectiv.

Therefor, the only problem with traveling faster than lite to other starz iz that you dont get to return home soon enuf to reunite with your frendz & family.
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Re: Faster Than Lite

Postby robert 46 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:28 pm

JO 753 wrote:I came up with a thruster based on liquid helium several yirz ago....

If you subject it to pressure, it will heat up and no longer be superfluid. In any case, helium is a non-renewable, limited resource; and using it for any such purpose would be a grave waste of a valuable substance. Using it to fill party balloons also should be banned. I was in a dollar store, and a woman was buying balloons: a woman employee filled one, but the customer decided she didn't want it, so the employee popped the balloon. I gave them both a brief lecture about wasting resources- and walked out. Eventually all helium which gets into the atmosphere one way or another then rises to the stratosphere and above, and escapes from Earth.


P.S. Both women were blacks. Seeing as how the average black IQ is 30 points lower than the average white IQ [1], I tend to notice such things regularly. Whether a white customer would have changed her mind about the balloon after it was filled, and whether a white employee would have popped it (rather than save it for another customer) is problematical.


[1] The average oriental IQ is 5 points higher than the average white IQ.
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Re: Faster Than Lite

Postby JO 753 » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:54 pm

I didnt no about pressure heating up a fluid. It coud still work, depending on how much. If it can be kept below the critical temp and still akselerated to a speed at wich the mass iz amplified it woud be extreemly efficient.

Helium can be harvested from Jupiter or the other gas jiants.

But, I'm hopeful that such a crude propulsion system, even if it coud work, will be superseded by sumthing much better by the time we'd get around to making it.
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Re: Faster Than Lite

Postby robert 46 » Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:36 am

The above ranslated into English:
JO 753 wrote:I didn't know about pressure heating up a fluid. It coud still work, depending on how much. If it can be kept below the critical temp and still accelerated to a speed at which the mass is amplified it woud be extremly efficient.

Can't be accelerated to a substantial fraction of the speed of light using hydraulic pressure. In any case it would require energy equivalent to the added mass, and that energy must be available from within the spaceship. Therefore one would lose the mass equivalent of the energy plus inefficiencies. The problem with a reaction drive is the loss of mass. Once the propellant is gone the spaceship is no longer controllable.
Helium can be harvested from Jupiter or the other gas giants.

Nonsense. Entirely uneconomic and impractical- likely forever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_mining
But, I'm hopeful that such a crude propulsion system, even if it coud work, will be superseded by something much better by the time we'd get around to making it.

This is a similar argument to not using current space propulsion technology to travel to other stars: The early travelers would be passed by later travelers with better technology to reach higher speeds.

Thus, there is no point in investing development money/effort in concepts which have no real potential. Seems to me that the ideas you have posted here have been uniformly impractical.
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Re: Faster Than Lite

Postby JO 753 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:12 am

robert 46 wrote:If you subject it to pressure, it will heat up and no longer be superfluid.


This iz incorrect.

Pressurizing a liquid duznt heat it up bekuz it duznt compress.
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Re: Faster Than Lite

Postby robert 46 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:53 pm

JO 753 wrote:
robert 46 wrote:If you subject it to pressure, it will heat up and no longer be superfluid.

This iz incorrect.

Pressurizing a liquid duznt heat it up bekuz it duznt compress.

Wikipedia wrote:The zero point energy of liquid helium is less if its atoms are less confined by their neighbors. Hence in liquid helium, its ground state energy can decrease by a naturally occurring increase in its average interatomic distance.

Rephrasing: "The zero point energy of liquid helium is greater if its atoms are more confined by their neighbors. Hence in liquid helium, its ground state energy can increase by a decrease in its average interatomic distance." Thus putting liquid helium under pressure causes a decrease in interatomic distance, and the natural tendency under Le Chatelier's Principle [1] is to resist the change by heating up.


[1] "...whenever a system in equilibrium is disturbed the system will adjust itself in such a way that the effect of the change will be nullified."
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Re: Faster Than Lite

Postby JO 753 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:59 pm

Duznt seem to mean that it iznt superfluid if its compressed and even if it goez above the superfluid temperature, you compress it and let it cool down agen.

https://cds.cern.ch/record/1444601/file ... Matter.pdf
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Re: Faster Than Lite

Postby robert 46 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 8:44 pm

JO 753 wrote:Duznt seem to mean that it iznt superfluid if its compressed and even if it goez above the superfluid temperature, you compress it and let it cool down agen.

Examine the phase diagram on the top left:
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~pchem/75/pdfs ... agrams.pdf
Above 2.5 MPa (25 atmospheres pressure), superfluid Helium-4 solidifies. Warm it up to melt and it is no longer superfluid. Thus you cannot put enough pressure on superfluid helium to use it as the super-propellant you envision.
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Re: Faster Than Lite

Postby JO 753 » Fri Apr 07, 2017 11:05 pm

Interesting paje. I dont understand alot uv it.

Still not a coffin nailer for the idea.

1. At just below the tranzition pressure, about 350 psi, maybe the fluid coud be made to move fast enuf.

Duz solid helium also hav no friction? If so, then

2. Solid helium at a 1000, or 10,000 or a million or wutevr psi mite extrude out uv an orifise at reletivistic speed.

3. Maybe sum blend uv 4He and 3He woud work.
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