Written sarcasm.

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Written sarcasm.

Postby hogshead » Wed Feb 27, 2013 11:35 pm

I have noticed that many writers on forums and such resort to sarcasm. Unfortunately, sarcasm in a written sentence can sometimes be hard for the reader to divine. I suggest starting all sarcastic written sentences with an exclamation point. E.g. !I think it's a great idea to torture puppies.
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Re: Written sarcasm.

Postby phobos rising » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:36 pm

! Yeah, right. That would work!
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Re: Written sarcasm.

Postby robert 46 » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:15 am

hogshead wrote:I have noticed that many writers on forums and such resort to sarcasm. Unfortunately, sarcasm in a written sentence can sometimes be hard for the reader to divine. I suggest starting all sarcastic written sentences with an exclamation point.

!However, this would be like revealing the punchline before telling the joke.

Here's a good example:
Parade wrote:ask marilyn Marilyn vos Savant February 26, 2013
Ask Marilyn: I'm So Embarrassed by My Parents!

J.B. in Cincinnati, Ohio, writes:

Marilyn: This is really hard for me to write, but here goes: I am really embarrassed by my parents. They want to meet my girlfriend, but I just can't do it. Do you have any bright ideas for me? If it matters, I'm 18 years old, and I live at home.

Marilyn responds:

The next time they bring up the subject of meeting your girlfriend, tell them you're not serious about her, and you don't want her to think you are. So you want to postpone a meet-the-parents event indefinitely. That should scare them enough to not bring up the subject again for a long time.

Comments:

Edgar Broheme Corral

I think Marilyn is being subtle and facetious. At least, that's the impression I get from "tell them you're not serious about her, and you don't want her to think you are." She seems to be telling him, "You're not really serious about her, and that's really why you don't want her to meet your parents. Your purported embarrassment by your parents is just to veil that you don't love your girlfriend enough to want to make her a part of your family."

A logical interpretation. But what if Marilyn's response had been:

!The next time they bring up the subject of meeting your girlfriend, tell them you're not serious about her, and you don't want her to think you are. !So you want to postpone a meet-the-parents event indefinitely. !That should scare them enough to not bring up the subject again for a long time.

All the subtlety would be lost.

The implication now is that the "girlfriend" is a "good-time-girl", and the parents wouldn't want her for a daughter-in-law-- no how, no way. He prefers to keep her "on the Q.T."-- this "Susie Cutie".

Sarcasm, facetiousness, and other sly remarks, one does not herald with a trumpet.
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Re: Written sarcasm.

Postby hogshead » Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:18 am

So Robert, one of two situations exist. Either Marilyn offered non-sarcastic advice, meant to be taken at face value, or she penned some !subtlety clever sarcastic response. Which was it? I took it at face value as I find no humor in the sarcastic interpretation. Certainly there would be situations where something would be lost by employing an antecedent, but the "!" mark is subtle, not exactly a trumpet.
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Re: Written sarcasm.

Postby OtisMateiTaorien » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:46 pm

However !Long distance relationships are fun.
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Re: Written sarcasm.

Postby robert 46 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:44 am

hogshead wrote:So Robert, one of two situations exist. Either Marilyn offered non-sarcastic advice, meant to be taken at face value, or she penned some !subtlely clever sarcastic response. Which was it?

Her "advice" was not circumspect, so it had a different purpose. If one is looking for a spouse, it is best to discover whether one likes the parents and siblings; if not the relationship is likely doomed unless the couple moves to the antipode of the earth. This is one of those facts of life they don't tell us about in school: you can choose your friends, but you can't choose your relatives- the inlaws are a package deal. As I see it neither he nor she is serious- and at 18 this is sensible: "Marry in haste- repent at leisure."
I took it at face value as I find no humor in the sarcastic interpretation.

The "punchline" is that sarcasm is not intended to be humorous, but more of a linguistic "jab in the nose".
Certainly there would be situations where something would be lost by employing an antecedent, but the "!" mark is subtle, not exactly a trumpet.

Well, the exclamation point is not subtle at the end of a sentence, so putting one at the beginning of a sentence would be expected to have a similar effect.
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Re: Written sarcasm.

Postby hogshead » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:40 pm

Robert said:
Her "advice" was not circumspect,

Are you sure?

Robert said:
The "punchline" is that sarcasm is not intended to be humorous, but more of a linguistic "jab in the nose".


I don't like being punched in the nose. I suppose this is the bottom line. Sarcasm is a weak form of writing in my book. Satire and irony can be written without stooping to sarcasm.

Robert said:
Well, the exclamation point is not subtle at the end of a sentence, so putting one at the beginning of a sentence would be expected to have a similar effect.


Not really, at least not at this time. Maybe if it were more common you'd observe it.
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Re: Written sarcasm.

Postby robert 46 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:55 am

hogshead wrote:Robert said:
Her "advice" was not circumspect,

Are you sure?

Yes. [1]
"CIRCUMSPECT : careful to consider all circumstances and possible consequences : prudent"
Robert said:
The "punchline" is that sarcasm is not intended to be humorous, but more of a linguistic "jab in the nose".

I don't like being punched in the nose. I suppose this is the bottom line. Sarcasm is a weak form of writing in my book. Satire and irony can be written without stooping to sarcasm.

There are many different forms of writing, and all of them can be interesting if proficiently used.
Robert said:
Well, the exclamation point is not subtle at the end of a sentence, so putting one at the beginning of a sentence would be expected to have a similar effect.

Not really, at least not at this time. Maybe if it were more common you'd observe it.

!Don understood your comment at least as well as he understands mathematics.


[1] Known:
A: parents want to meet girlfriend.
~B: son does not want girlfriend to meet parents.

Unknown:
C: son wants(/not_wants) parents to meet girlfriend.
D: girlfriend wants(/not_wants) to meet parents.

~B implies ~C because parents_meeting_girlfriend and girlfriend_meeting_parents are identical.
But which is his actual primary motivation: ~B or ~C? Also there is no information to resolve D. Thus there is not enough information to give well-informed advice.
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Re: Written sarcasm.

Postby raydpratt » Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:21 pm

We can take it as a given that the lady with the highest recorded I.Q. of anyone on the planet is a feminist, meaning merely that she commands respect for herself and also wants it given to women in general.

I see her advice to the young man as being a snare for him to essentially be honest, anger his parents, and then be forced to grow up. He is being baited with his own vanity and megalomania when she advised him that his parents would fear to bring up the request in the future if he responds according to her advice.

She knows that he's a dork and that his parents have spanked him before and that they will do so again.
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Re: Written sarcasm.

Postby abaddon1234 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:33 am

I think it's a great idea to torture puppies.
แทงบอลออนไลน์
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Re: Written sarcasm.

Postby davar55 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:30 am

There is a difference between sarcasm and irony. Since this was
her official response, I doubt she intended a sarcastic answer, but
was demonstrating a witfully ironic point of view, to get the
questioner to re-think his question.

! An unexplained exclamation point would not have helped with clarification.
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Re: Written sarcasm.

Postby robert 46 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:29 am

OtisMateiTaorien wrote:However !Long distance relationships are fun.

Marilyn's involvement:
Parade wrote:Closing a Long-Distance Relationship
January 14, 2016 – 5:00 AM
By Marilyn vos Savant

Y.K. in Tokyo, Japan, writes:

I’m a 28-year-old Japanese guy living in Tokyo and working part-time. My Polish girlfriend is 24 years old and currently finishing her schooling at a university in her home country. We met in Japan, and she says she wants to come back in October of 2016 and live with me forever. However, she wants me to move to Poland until then to prove that I love her. I understand her feelings, but I don’t want to leave Japan because I am working toward a permanent career, and we will need to earn enough money. She believes I can just get a job in October when we return to Japan. I don’t want to break up with her, but if I won’t move to Poland now, she’ll break up with me. Do you have any advice for me?

Marilyn responds:

Yes! I suggest that you stay in Japan. If you move to Poland now, you will be sidetracked in your career goals and feel you are spending your time entertaining your girlfriend, who will be moving forward with her own plans. I believe this will make you feel bad about yourself and harm your relationship with your girlfriend over the long term. If she breaks up with you because you decline to move to Poland and wait while she finishes school, I think you should be happy you learned your girlfriend is selfish before you established a serious commitment to her, such as getting married.

The old adage "Absence makes the heart grow fonder" is generally false. Rather, "Out of sight, out of mind" tends to be more applicable. Bottom line: long distance relationships are not all that much fun. The roving eye roves, and having roved moves on. (With apologies to Omar Khayyam.)
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